(Must Read!!!) The Leijiverse Integrated Timeline 3rd Edition

The Leijiverse Integrated Timeline is an amazing document.  It’s the sort of thing that even a person not interested in the Leijiverse could flip through and enjoy reading.  And of course for the Leiji fan it’s required reading and a great resource.  And now its author Richard Mandel has just come out with a 3rd edition, promising more eye-opening lore!

The 3rd edition’s 18-page introduction is a must read on its own right.  Mandel does a great job of defending his project (namely, the creation of a single unified timeline of all the major events in the Leijiverse) by setting it in the context of Leiji Matsumoto’s metaverse and the master’s mysterious notions of time.  Essentially, he begins by proving that his project is viable and ends by giving good arguments why it is profitable as well.  In another section he presents his own system of periods for Leiji works throughout the decades, providing some great background information for new Leiji fans to situate themselves and start exploring.

The body of the work is of course the timeline itself, in which readers can lose themselves for hours (I’m not exaggerating, the timeline is 250+ pages).

And I need to make special mention of footnote # 1, where Mandel lays out his own interpretation (or model for visualization) of Time in the Leijiverse.  He posits a Master Ring of Time shaped like an n-dimensional toroidal (something like a super-dimensional bagel) with multiple Rings of Time tracing (in terms of a simple bagel, now) circles or ellipses that can be mentally constructed by slicing the bagel at various angles.  And guess what lies in the middle of the bagel?!  I won’t spoil it.  And now I’m hungry.

So while I go buy myself a bagel do check this project out, by a fan for the fans, as the best projects usually are~


~ by Haloed Bane on December 7, 2011.

32 Responses to “(Must Read!!!) The Leijiverse Integrated Timeline 3rd Edition”

  1. Yes, the best projects are exactly that… and if the cards fall into place, our Macross Frontier project will be one to win them all. Am downloading this, thanks.

    • Cool! This sort of timeline is the kind of thing big fans of mega-franchises like Macross and Gundam will totally appreciate, I’m sure.

  2. Sounds like interesting fanwank. Personally speaking I’ve always preferred Leijiverse’s irrational continuity, it gives the stories and world a mythic aura: the works are more legends and folk tales with many versions than linear fictive history

    • I recommend reading the timeline intro.

      There’s certainly a mythic aura to the many versions (and if you read the earliest Japanese chronicles they will actually have several versions of the same event, so it’s a very Japanese thing) but Matsumoto himself will tell you each of these versions actually happened, and he has the time theory to explain this fact.

  3. 275 pages. Wow. The amount of research and work that went into the timeline is astounding. I feel like I’ve watched too little of Matsumoto’s work to really comment on this though. Other than Yamato, the odd Harlock and the Galaxy Express films I’m a total Matsumoto newbie.

    • Astounding is the right word!

      I totally recommend you reading the introduction. Also, just opening the document and typing Harlock, Yamato and other words you know and seeing what shows up.

  4. who that’s like 100 pages longer than the last one. Which one of my boyfriend’s fans set him. So how is that firehosting site? I’m getting yellow warnings from mcafee

    • The link is safe. I know sometimes these hosting sites trigger warnings from some virus programs but I wouldn’t worry about this one.

  5. hey you got quoted neat

  6. Having spent much of the last day going over the timeline, I find most of it workable from by knowledge of the subjects in question.

    I have one counter-argument however…for the Case of Maya in Endless Odyssey and not having aged hardly at all since Space Pirate Captain Harlock. Remember who her mother is. Who her grandmother is. Women who aged very slowly over the course of a thousand years. If she ages at the rate her mother aged, she’d only be about a year older in appearance by the time Earth vanishes. Of course this doesn’t cover how she looks as old as she does when we see her originally. But then we don’t have all the finer points of how her species ages from birth to teenager now do we? It would be annoying, I suppose, if you had to breast feed an infant for 17 or more years before they could functionally feed themselves. So one imagines that they grow up to at least a fuctional child state before the slow aging kicks in.

    (Too bad she wasn’t from Iscadar…else she’s he right on the bridge with Harlock fully grown before the end of the series, if not already there at the start)

    I won’t argue her state of life, only her appearance in age.

    • You mean Mayu!! That’s interesting.

      How about Harlock Saga? As the Timeline notes, according to that manga Emeraldas and Maetel meet Harlock and Tochiro when they’re all children. They all look roughly the same age (10-12 yrs old is my guess). One would conclude from that that LaMetalians age normally until adulthood and then stop, since 10-15 years later they look like adults indeed. Then again there’s the case of LaRela who used to rule LaMetal. She looked like a child though she gave the impression of being very old (Yayoi/Promethium looked older, and one always assumed she was younger because she becomes her successor in the end, but it’s not clear). We need more intel on LaMetalian children…

  7. There is the other thing to consider, since LaMetalians enter the gene pool by at least 2000, by the time of Harlock, it is not entirely unreasonable that he and some of his crew could be of mixed stock, and also age more slowly than present day humans. This would make the timeline harder to maintain because it would be difficult to guess people’s actual ages on appearance alone, but could allow for a few of the oddities within the timeline related, usually, to Harlock.

    But then, doesn’t the timeline have Maetel observe Yamato’s last stand from Final Yaamto? At a point when LaMatal would be just a little over 200 years out from the Solar System? If she meet Harlock and Tochiro several hundred years later and looks like she’s 10-12…how did she look back in the 2200s before the Galaxy Railways even started?

    • Well, I guess we have to forget about Maetel entirely and focus on Emeraldas. I say this because there’s obviously issues of mechanization and/or cloning involved in her case, whereas as far as we know Emeraldas is an untainted specimen…I think 🙂

  8. I’m trying to recall if Emeraldas is the older sister as in the case of Promethium and her sister on Earth during Millenium Queen.

    Reguardless, in each appearance that I am aware of, they look almost identical. Assuming they aren’t twins since with a few exceptions Emeraldas has reddish hair to Maetel’s blonde. Aside of course for Queen Emeraldas anime that has Emeraldas as a blonde.

    • I believe Selen is Promethium’s younger sister in the Millennial Queen manga, but her older sister in the Millennial Queen anime.
      According to both the Queen Emeraldas OVA and the Ring of the Nibelungs manga, Emeraldas and Maetel are twin sisters, but Emeraldas was born first so Emeraldas is the older sister and Maetel is the younger sister.

      The Millennial Queen anime version is better because it sets up the parallel Selen = Emeraldas, Promethium = Maetel, which flows really nicely, with the first pair being redhead outspoken rebels and the second pair being soft-spoken blondes who are ultimately far more powerful. The Timeline alludes to that under the “1999, June and July” entry (page 54 in the pdf).

  9. Something that is touch upon but not explored is the Darkwood Gate from I5555. It it referenced in the Timeline for Yamato’s era, but there is one thing I wonder about. The people at the other end of the Gate…they have blue skin. The Gamilons and Galman…have blue skin about the same shade. Could whatever that world was be a Gamilon or Galman colony world some 50 years or so before the Gamilons reach Earth? Could this be a reason Earth didn’t evacuate earlier? Could in the two hundred years since the I5555 incident, the blue people have been brought under either Desslok’s authority, or conquored by the Bolar? Thus having lost communications to them from Earth. Or could they have been helping Earth during the long war and been punished for it when the Gamilons found them…thus another possible reason for the war lasting so long.
    It is pure speculation since the world of I5555 in not covered again, nor is anything about that gate mentioned in anything else, directly at least.
    However this does give the humans a clear knowledge that aliens exist prior to the incidents of 1999.

    • Ach, I can’t participate in this theorizing at all. I recently finished watching the 2nd season of Yamato, so I know nothing of Galman and Bolar. However, during this month I plan to watch the two films between the 2nd and 3rd season and I’ll watch the 3rd season next year.

      Certainly the fact that the Crescendoll aliens are blue links them in my mind to the Gamilons. Dessler and Stella could easily belong to the same racial stock (Aryan Smurfs, basically).

  10. And one final (hopefully) pondering. Or perhaps just a mild questioning…of the addition of Captain Harlock (the XII) into the EDF during the Gamilon War. That I don’t mind at all. My pondering is…how does he get out to the Argo/Yamato after the Rainbow Cluster Battle? One assumes his ship is named (as is tradition) either Arcadia or Deathshadow. But it would be an Earth type ship, like those at the Battle of Pluto. His ship wasn’t at Pluto of course, so maybe it is of another type…but it still (normally) would not have a wave motion engine. So how did he get out there?

    Possible answers I can come up with are:
    A: His ship was refitted by the EDF after Yamato left with a Wave Motion Engine in order to better defend Earth if the Gamilons came while Yamato was away (or as a backup if Yamato failed).

    B: His era’s Tochiro managed to fit it with a captured Gamilon engine during the war, but they couldn’t figure out how to make more and it wasn’t suited for the long trek to Iscandar under constant attack, both in terms of supplies and in terms of abilites (no Wave Motion Gun).

    C: It was a captured Gamilon warship to begin with.

    D: They used the Darkwood Gate and found that it happened to put them near where Yamato was (meeting of luck)…they hadn’t know exactly were the Gate lead in the Universe until that time because they never manage to recognize any of the stars in the area. If they had known, Yamato would have used the gate (if she fit) to cut a huge amount out of her trip. Though Yamato doesn’t use it to get home either (else they would have arrived in Lunar orbit) so maybe she is too big for the Gate. That would fit if that world from I5555 had been a Gamilon colony world near the edge of the Greater Magellenic Cloud. The world was aleady full so the Gamilon population couldn’t relocate there, thus they had to take Earth instead. (For this to work the colony’s population would have had to never tell the Empire about Earth…or at least not the truth about it.)

    It is just curious to have a Harlock in the story. I like it, but that question on “how did he get there” remains.

    I would note that the one of the (I think Play Station 2) games for “Be Forever, Yamato” (no film spoliers since this doesn’t happen in that movie) adds in a Harlock origins story via “Captain Alex Wildstar” and a new character on Yamato…an engineer that looks a whole lot like Tochiro Oyama. They seem to leave using a version of his old EDF destroyer (known in Star Blazers as the “Paladin”) that seems to be able to Warp. I think he gets his traditional scar during one of the battles in that game, though he keeps his eye. This story is not in the film “Be Forever, Yamato” at all. My guess is Matsumoto or someone added it in for some reason since this was around the time he had control over Yamato.

    • Well, let’s see. We know that Harlock and Tochiro’s destinies have been karmically paired up since prior to the events of Yamato (they were partners in the Wild West in the 19th century, friends during World War II, etc). From this we can conjecture that it’s very possible that indeed Yamato-era Harlock had a Tochiro by his side. So I would actually give a lot of credence to the game that you mention last, and that could support your option (B).

      In keeping with the whole theme of Harlock’s life, it could be that Tochiro stumbled onto many a Gamilon secret that could have revolutionized the EDF’s defensive and offensive capabilities, but that the Earth government simply refused to pay heed to Harlock and Tochiro’s explanations. This could explain them kicking major butt against Gamilon ships and yet not having their technology spread to other Earth ships. If Harlock was considered a rogue by that point even meeting with the EDF might have been forbidden…

  11. Of course all this can change easily when the new Yamato series comes out next year.

  12. The version I came across about 3 years ago was 10 pages long, now it could make a magnificent volume. It’s a great reference document for all Leiji fans indeed. Thank you, Richard Mandel!

    I haven’t had time to read it through yet, but from what I saw it’s full of delicious little observations – like Key Yuki getting her own facial scar in the Endless Odyssey, etc. Also, getting back to Mayu, I absolutely love the interpretation of “That girl” scene in the EO, which makes it even more bittersweet – and it rings true, Harlock does know Mayu better than her father…

    • The Timeline does a great job of laying out and delineating:

      1) the well-established facts (all referenced which is super convenient)

      2) the many connections between those facts (facts that are not on record but must by logic be true)

      3) original interpretations (some of which are stunning and all of which are thought-provoking).

      So not only you get to read all of this stuff, but you’re always absolutely clear what is what.

  13. I try to read but the link has expired… Why do we don’t harlock here to battle against sopa!!!

  14. […] 9 days from now) it is fitting for us to look back and research Captain Harlock’s origins.  Leijiverse Integrated Timeline creator Mandel comes to our aid again with a couple of projects on just this topic. Monchhichi […]

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